ArtBistro

here's one thing I learned with age: Thou shall NEVER mess around with an artist's ego, and since the worst the artist the bigger the ego, I shut my mouth.
But yes... there is such a thing as bad art but maybe it is bad because it is not really art, but something else.
There are folks out there doing sloppy work and calling it art.

bluestarr said:

let 'em make bad art all they want, it hurts no one and makes them happy.

There are times when we Artist are left with no words to define Art. How are we then to decide who's art is BAD?

Encouraging Art to become ART is better.

How is one to start if not with bad art at first,it takes time and if they are willing to try then let them. If they ask your op pion then you can well try this or that, shade alittle here . It wont hurt you to help them if they ask. We all started out drawing something silly at one time and as time went on we got better. We all got hurt feeling But we kept going with it, You cant say your art sucks stop doing it becuase you dont like it. I have had alot of friends and other people sit there and say I wish I could draw how do you not know if you dont try. It might mean something to them. Art is what you see in it.

imagine if that kind of "just let them do it even poorly, if it makes them happy" frame of mind would apply to other trades like medicine, architecture, dentistry, or even teaching?
In most fields, professionals are liable and held accountable for their poor performance.
Except artists and politicians LOL

My point is.. it is not even about aesthetics, technique, style, subject and looks. It is about dedication and effort one applies toward learning the trade, developing (even unconsciously) the concept and finally producing works of art.

do you think artists have no responsibility? be it social, ethical or moral? the principles that surround any other profession or trade do not apply to artists because they don't "hurt " anyone?
Well there are a lot of professions where poor performance does not kill anyone either, but people are still held accountable for what they do.
Nobody dies of a bad painting, done by a sloppy artist.
Nobody dies of a ransom note type design, done by some kid who just learned to mess with Photoshop and Corell and is competing in a ill-informed market with real professional graphic designers, by selling his crappy work cheap or speculating?
But doesn't it hurt somehow the other artists who apply themselves, their money, time and effort in years of perfecting their trade by taking away job opportunities and contributing even more for the overall public misinformation?
Just a thought...

Well let me tell you this... not too long ago, a lot, and I mean a lot of great graphic designers and illustrators in my generation lost jobs and work in advertising and publishing, to little computer geeks, because even though they had years of experience and were top notch in what they did, they were not computer literate... and if they were, they'd ask for more than the little geeks who could manage computers.
I, myself, had to go learn computer urgently to keep my job back then, and I was one of the fortunate ones.
I was head of creative department in the company that introduced electronic desktop publishing in advertising in my homeland. So I got it before anyone else did.
It broke my heart to see so many good folks being left out in the cold.
I cried 3 days when I had to deny a job to a guy, whose talent for designing typefaces I'd admired ever since I was a kid, just because he could not do it in a computer.
The general public is very misinformed, and unfortunately, being talented and exceptionally good, not always counts.
In my experience, I learned that sometimes the one who has the newest gadget or the best "con" skills, is the one who takes the take.
I am glad to hear that in Tatoo, there is more demand and the public is a bit more selective. My son, who is also very talented, is considering a career as tatoo artist.
If I didn't faint at the sight of blood, I'd even consider learning the trade myself :)

SilkSatin2K2 and the artistng - I see many strong opinions and yet when I looked in your portfolios, I saw little to back up such opinions. No examples to emphasize your point. The reality is...everyone has a different idea or definition on what good art is to them. Even professionally, some artist's style no matter how amazing will wow some clients and disappoint others. Many out there are happy with a decent design if the cost is cheap. That is life. Whining or complaining about it is not constructive and a waste of time. There are many talented computer geeks doing amazing things with 3D, Flash and Mulltimedia. So be careful how you cast opinions. You never know who is reading it, and it may cost you an opportunity.

There's a lot of bad art out there. (One may argue what's bad, but it's hard not to judge. In fact, the harder it gets to decide what art is, the more that leaves stuff to count as art that stinks.) I don't know how to stop people from making bad art, though, other than to make them change careers. Besides, it's not our responsibility, and the artist is generally not exactly asking for our opinion. I could see it maybe if it's a kind of commercial art that does involve and benefit from interchange with others. Nothing becomes a cover design on the books I edit without a lot of back and forth. I could also see it if there's a matter of learning basic skills, like how to work with a medium (or to remember to take the lens cap off).

People should be allowed to make any kind of art they want but I wouldn't encourage someone who lacks skills or insight to pursue art as a career. I would encourage them to study and learn and unleash their creativity but I sure wouldn't suggest they try to make a living at it.

As far as young bucks coming in and "stealing" jobs from talented designers and commercial artists just because they are up on the technology...Well, we've seen it coming for years. When I received my hard earned degree in graphic design, the following year computer classes became available for the first time. I had a choice, take my shiny new degree around and try to impress people with my skills of manually creating layouts with my markers and cutting rubylith or I could suck it up and make sure I kept up with the emerging technology. All it cost me was a new Mac (performa 400 back in 1992). Looking back it was a small price to pay to keep me marketable. If you can't keep up with the technology, then there are plenty of markets for skilled artists that don't require that knowledge. People worth working with, I have found, will pay you for your skills (eventually). They may have to make the mistake of hiring a designer who will work for pizza and beer money once or twice before they get serious and seek out the true professionals to get the job done right. I do think it sucks when a truly talented artist is passed up for someone with a PC prostituting themselves and passing themselves off for a designer...but there's a good chance the person paying for that job would be satisfied with clipart and you would be unhappy working for them anyway.

Oh, regarding the whole "bad artists steal your work" thing...LET 'EM! I found that it makes for stronger customer loyalty and better client/artist relations. After someone has an experience with getting crap for a "good price", they seem to develop an appreciation for what I do and what I charge. Especially since is costs them way more to have me fix something than it would have cost if they came to me in the first place. Like the sign in the shop says "TOP QUALITY WORK, LOW PRICES, FAST TURNAROUND TIME......PICK 2..."

okay so aside from all the crude arguments...i talk about art school confidential all the time. and in this discussion, it is nothing but completely relevant. art requires skill and meaning, if art lacks both then what is its purpose? like i said earlier, i'm not a great artist "cr8tive" i dont even consider myself an artist yet. cr*tive, your name being so ironic.....the art that i have displayed on artbistro.com makes a comment or suggest a movement. i mean the work that i do merely reflects the society that i live in. its commentary on the lack of education as well as the lack of substance is certainly valid and present in my work. a certain "friend" of mine who is such a cool person, simply makes shitty work, it doesnt MEAN anything, there is color and swirly lines. there is no substance, she is completely void of the experience and her art and her viewers are constantly kept wanting. its like shes fighting to experience something that she never can....to show a story that shes never lived. its FAKE, if she tried to convey her frustration maybe her "art" would be better.....i know that the art is in the process, and development, but there is nothing there either...no language exist between the paint on the canvas and the viewer, nothing is to be gained from her "art" shes not even teaching herself anything......depressed art is van gogh or picasso's "blue period" not what this is.....what i view is sheer CRAP-ola. i wont even get into the photoshop thing.....whole OTHER discussion.

Now we can move on to whether one should allow others to write bad posts. Fortunately, if we're speaking about a digital artist, the same method would work in both cases.

I would have to say it's mainly subjective. What I may consider bad art, the artist or a collector might consider good art. It reminds me of one of my own experiences - last spring I submitted my portfolio for competitions in a couple of galleries. The shows were going on roughly the same time., in fact the galleries were on the same floor in the same building. One gallery accepted my work while the other one turned it down. When I had the exhibition I checked out the work in the gallery that turned me down and most of the work I found to be tacky. My point is that although I may think it's bad, it may be worth something to someone else. I would say let them keep creating. Creativity is really an ongoing process and the outlet for the artist. It could be that the work will eventually mature to something more pleasing

BAD ART! Go to my room!